Broadswords, Hydras, or Liberators?

[d34l10]

Ok, so these are the numbers according to the VTS construction menu (counting the dots):

Broadsword/ Hydra/ Liberator
Cost 450/ 450/ 600
Armor 6/ 5/ 8
Damage (Infantry: Armor: Structure) (1:2:4)/ (1:7:3)/ (8:3:2)
Speed 7/ 6/ 6
Range 5/ 5/ 5

The way I see it, Broadswords are good and all, but just too weak against most serious mobile units and missile infantry just tear them up. My argument is that you can get the much better Hydras for the same price. So my real issue is between Hydras and Liberators.

Liberators cost more but have heavier armor, do decent damage to armored units (More than a Broadsword), and have the same speed and range as a Hydra. To take out a Liberator one-on-one, you’d ideally use a 450-credit Hydra, but Hydras can be dispatched by 300-credit Rocket Troopers, while at most, a Liberator will take three or four rocket hits before taking out a Rocket Trooper, and its armor is strong enough to take it and just be in the yellow, maybe even in the green.

Then again, Hydras are cheaper, and their firepower is nothing to scoff at, so maybe they’re more cost-effective. You can buy four Hydras for the same price as three Liberators.

But if money is no object, are Liberators better? I don’t know if they intended for the most expensive tank to be the best all around or what. I can see them wanting that rock-paper-scissors kinda balance. What do you all think? Which one’s better all around?

[ajcross]

Here are some tables that I made up. Hopefully you can cut-n-paste into a spreadsheet to view them more clearly. The first table is stats, the second is hits to kill and the third is time to kill.

I rate them as:
Liberator - heavy armor, good vs infantry
Broadsword - better medium armor, good vs buildings
Hydra - weak medium armor, good vs vehicles.
Cyclops - weak armor, long range, good vs buildings and vehicles
Rocket Troopers - anti-cyclops anti-hydra

I'll look at the classic breach of a base. The base has a pinch point guarded by towers with a mix of armor and troops inside. How would I penetrate?

I'd put 4 Liberators in the center backed by 2 hydras and 2 rocket troopers. On the left and right sides I'd have 2 broadswords backed by 2 cyclops. Back these up with more Liberators and Hydra. Have a contingent of Raiders to capture buildings in the base.

Assuming that you keep your battle lines in order, direct the liberators, hydras and troopers to move two to three clicks past the towers into the base with the hydras and infantry following. These draw fire - expect these to to die. If possible go after some infantry. Target the broadswords and cyclops at a tower on each side of the pinch point. Target the hydras and troopers after any cyclops behind the towers. Do these quickly and the towers should fall.

Pull the backup liberators and hydras into open areas by the enemies buildings to force the enemy to funnel between buildings. Send in raiders to capture a building and build gatling and rocket towers behind the enemy forces.

I prefer to capture HQs, HRC and VTS so I can replenish my forces. Surveillance Centers and Power Generators let me knock out towers. on the other side of the base. I don't bother capturing galaxite plants, warehouses, or research/development centers to keep the power drain up to limit towers, VTS and HRC buildings.

Andy Cross

*************
Unit Type Credits Replicate Armor Speed Sight squares Range Squares Range Power Build Seconds Infantry Vehicle Building Rate of Fire Notes
Security Guard 150 50 2 8 4 2 3 12 5 1 1 1
Rocket Trooper 300 100 3 5 4 3 5 12 1 5 1 .5
Corporate Raider 550 183 3 5 4 0 12 8 Captures enemy buildings. Caputres bullpup if in Galaxite Processor.
SR-98 Eagle 300 100 4 10 4 3 5 13 4 2 2 1
T-29 Broadsword 450 150 6 7 4 3 5 13 1 2 4 .5
M-18 Hydra 450 150 5 6 4 3 5 13 1 7 3 .8
T-33 Liberator 600 200 8 6 4 3 5 13 8 3 2 1
G-4 Bullpup 600 200 10 6 4 13 Mines galaxite
H-7 Dominion 1200 400 10 5 4 13
A-3 Cyclops 500 166 3 4 5 4 8 13 1 3 7 .33
Andy (550) 183 5 10 5 4 8 - 15 3 3 .33 1/2 Armor regenerates in 30 seconds
Fox (550) 183 4 10 5 4 8 - 15 3 3 .33 1/2 Armor regenerates in 30 seconds
Headquarters 14 0 Builds Power Generator
Need at least one Power Generator to build , Galaxite Processor, Galaxite Warehouse, Human Resource Center (HRC), Vehicle Transport Station (VTS), Surveillance Center, Research & Development Center
Need Surveillance Center to build Gatling Tower and Rocket Tower
Power Generator 750 7 +40 8 Lightning bolt show on buildings if more power needed
Galaxite Processor 1500 10 -10 12 Has a Bullpup and stores 3000 credits (worth 1050 credits)
Galaxite Warehouse 750 6 -7 12 Stores 5000 credits
Human Resource Center (HRC) 1000 7 -10 12 Buillds: Security Guard, Rocket Trooper, Corporate Raider
Need: Research Center and Advanced HRC upgrade to build Rocket Trooper and Corporate Raider
Vehicle Transport Station (VTS) 1250 9 -10 12 Builds: SR-98 Eagle, T-29 Broadsword
Need a Galaxite Processor for G-4 Bullpup
Need Advanced VTS upgrade for M-18 Hydra, T-33 Liberator, A-3 Cyclops
Need Research & Development Center and Advanced VTS upgrade for H-7 Dominion
Surveillance Center 750 7 -15 12
Research & Development Center 750 7 -15 12 Builds Advanced HRC and Advanced VTS upgrades
Gatling Tower 750 4 3 -10 8 6 1 2 Needs surveillance center and enough power to work
Rocket Tower 850 4 3 -10 8 1 5 1 Needs surveillance center and enough power to work
Advanced HRC 750 20
Advanced VTS 1150 26
*************
Hits To Kill Security Guard Rocket Trooper SR-98 Eagle T-29 Broadsword M-18 Hydra T-33 Liberator A-3 Cyclops Gatling Tower Rocket Tower Andy or Fox
Security Guard 4 6 6 5 7 3 5 3 8 1
Rocket Trooper 5 8 8 8 9 3 7 4 10 1
Corporate Raider 5 8 8 8 9 3 7 4 10 1
SR-98 Eagle 19 4 25 7 4 13 3 29 5 3
T-29 Broadsword 32 7 40 12 6 21 5 48 8 5
M-18 Hydra 24 5 50 10 5 17 4 39 7 4
T-33 Liberator 37 8 76 14 7 25 6 58 10 6
G-4 Bullpup 49 10 100 19 9 34 7 79 13 7
H-7 Dominion 49 10 100 19 9 34 7 79 13 7
A-3 Cyclops 13 3 25 5 3 9 2 20 4 2
Headquarters 124 72 166 28 50 126 9 50
Power Generator 50 30 68 12 20 50 4 20
Galaxite Processor 88 50 120 20 35 88 7 35
Galaxite Warehouse 50 30 68 12 20 50 4 20
Human Resource Center (HRC) 64 36 84 14 25 64 5 25
Vehicle Transport Station (VTS) 76 44 112 17 30 76 6 30
Surveillance Center 60 36 84 14 25 64 5 25
Research & Development Center 60 36 84 14 25 64 5 25
Gatling Tower 40 22 52 9 15 38 3 25 25 15
Rocket Tower 38 22 52 9 15 38 3 25 25 15
Andy 9 22 14 22 25 7 31 9 35 2
Fox 7 16 11 16 18 5 19 7 24 2
Time to kill HQ 1:20 1:55 1:54 :42 1:04 2:10 1:16
Time to kill Andy 1:02 :53
Time to kill Bullpup 2:17
Rate of Fire per second 1.5 0.6 1 0.66 0.8 1 0.5 1 0.66 0.42
Fraction 3/2 4/5 1 2/3 4/5 1 1/2 1 2/3 5/12
*************
Time to Kill Security Guard Rocket Trooper SR-98 Eagle T-29 Broadsword M-18 Hydra T-33 Liberator A-3 Cyclops Gatling Tower Rocket Tower Andy or Fox
Rate of Fire per second 1.5 0.6 1 0.66 0.8 1 0.5 1 0.66 0.42
Security Guard 2.7 10.0 6.0 7.6 8.8 3.0 10.0 3.0 12.1 2.4
Rocket Trooper 3.3 13.3 8.0 12.1 11.3 3.0 14.0 4.0 15.2 2.4
Corporate Raider 3.3 13.3 8.0 12.1 11.3 3.0 14.0 4.0 15.2 2.4
SR-98 Eagle 12.7 6.7 25.0 10.6 5.0 13.0 6.0 29.0 7.6 7.1
T-29 Broadsword 21.3 11.7 40.0 18.2 7.5 21.0 10.0 48.0 12.1 11.9
M-18 Hydra 16.0 8.3 50.0 15.2 6.3 17.0 8.0 39.0 10.6 9.5
T-33 Liberator 24.7 13.3 76.0 21.2 8.8 25.0 12.0 58.0 15.2 14.3
G-4 Bullpup 32.7 16.7 100.0 28.8 11.3 34.0 14.0 79.0 19.7 16.7
H-7 Dominion 32.7 16.7 100.0 28.8 11.3 34.0 14.0 79.0 19.7 16.7
A-3 Cyclops 8.7 5.0 25.0 7.6 3.8 9.0 4.0 20.0 6.1 4.8
Headquarters 82.7 120.0 166.0 42.4 62.5 126.0 18.0 0.0 0.0 119.0
Power Generator 33.3 50.0 68.0 18.2 25.0 50.0 8.0 0.0 0.0 47.6
Galaxite Processor 58.7 83.3 120.0 30.3 43.8 88.0 14.0 0.0 0.0 83.3
Galaxite Warehouse 33.3 50.0 68.0 18.2 25.0 50.0 8.0 0.0 0.0 47.6
Human Resource Center (HRC) 42.7 60.0 84.0 21.2 31.3 64.0 10.0 0.0 0.0 59.5
Vehicle Transport Station (VTS) 50.7 73.3 112.0 25.8 37.5 76.0 12.0 0.0 0.0 71.4
Surveillance Center 40.0 60.0 84.0 21.2 31.3 64.0 10.0 0.0 0.0 59.5
Research & Development Center 40.0 60.0 84.0 21.2 31.3 64.0 10.0 0.0 0.0 59.5
Gatling Tower 26.7 36.7 52.0 13.6 18.8 38.0 6.0 25.0 37.9 35.7
Rocket Tower 25.3 36.7 52.0 13.6 18.8 38.0 6.0 25.0 37.9 35.7
Andy 6.0 36.7 14.0 33.3 31.3 7.0 62.0 9.0 53.0 4.8
Fox 4.7 26.7 11.0 24.2 22.5 5.0 38.0 7.0 36.4 4.8

[claxbane]

WoW. That's some detailed information.

[ajcross]

[quote="claxbane"]WoW. That's some detailed information.[/quote]

Have you ever played the "Whack a Mole" game? You know: big padded mallet and moles popup from several holes.

I made a level with one of everything on it for Side 1 and Side 2. Side 2 was allied to Side 1, but Side 1 could attack Side 2. Side 2 would automatically spawn so the 'moles' kept popping up.

I tested towers by adding Gatling and Rocket Towers for Side 3 to shoot up Side 1.

There is some slight rounding problems with Rate of Fire and to get shots to kill for buildings like an HQ I used 2-4 of the same unit.

Andy Cross

[d34l10]

Wow, that chart makes my little diddy look like crap...

I don't even want to know how long it took you to come up with all that info...

So basically you got liberators on top, like I thought, but you've got hydras over broadswords because of the armor issues. Interesting.

[ajcross]

[quote="d34l10"]I don't even want to know how long it took you to come up with all that info...

So basically you got liberators on top, like I thought, but you've got hydras over broadswords because of the armor issues. Interesting.[/quote]

WI is basically modified Rock-Paper-Scissors with Towers-Infantry-Tanks with more crossover. Attack Towers with Cyclops and Broadswords, Attack Infantry with Gatling Towers, Liberators, Security Guards, Eagles or Andy. Attack Tanks with Rocket Towers, Rocket Troopers, Hydras, Cyclops, or Andy.

The first table got eight columns from WI's internal help and the last seven columns from the HQ/HRC/VTS build screens.

For Hits to Kill, It took 30 minutes to make my "Whack a Mole" level. Then maybe 2-4 hours counting hits and watching the clock.

Time to Kill was a simple spreadsheet of Hits to Kill / Rate of Fire.

Andy Cross

[crakerz]

From what I understand, the difficulty setting has some effect on armor. Did you take that into account? What setting were these figures compiled from ?

[ajcross]

[quote="crakerz"]From what I understand, the difficulty setting has some effect on armor. Did you take that into account? What setting were these figures compiled from ?[/quote]

I probably had it set on Easy because I have been testing out my level.

If this is true, I had enemy towers killing my troops and my troops killing enemy troops and buildings.

Andy Cross