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scottlu WI Founder
Joined: 15 Aug 2003 Posts: 1773
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Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2004 2:47 pm Post subject: |
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It should work fine (famous last words, I know )
If it doesn't I want to know about it. crakerz sent me his problem levels last night and I'm taking a look.
Crakerz: one limit that you are over (and the mission editor is not validating) is the number of triggers allowed per side. I previously said it was unlimited but there is a trigger related resource that isn't unlimited, so I need to backtrack on that statement. It is 40 per side. I can bump this up to an arbitrary number, as well as validate trigger counts so you are warned at mission export time. Note that this limit doesn't affect the .ld file, just the game at run-time. Your .ld's should be fine if you decrease the trigger count to 40 per side.
How about a max of 100 per side? _________________ Warfare Incorporated Development Team |
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mitch WI Forum Novice
Joined: 21 Feb 2004 Posts: 8
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Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2004 4:07 pm Post subject: |
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100 triggers
I cant wait to play a mission that has that many triggers
I think that that sounds good |
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crakerz Mega-Poster
Joined: 17 Sep 2003 Posts: 353 Location: California Bay Area
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Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2004 6:14 pm Post subject: |
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Scott, I think that 100 is good (or a nice binary number of 128 would be even better )
I haven't tested this, but are you validating the number of switches now? That one caused freezes if exceeded!
One of my levels that I was waiting for the Area bug to be fixed before proceeding, has (sides combined) over 100 easy.
When this one is back up and running, I will try to finish that one! |
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Girt Established Forum User
Joined: 15 Aug 2003 Posts: 96 Location: Co. Springs
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Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2004 6:39 pm Post subject: |
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Obviously the way around limits is to break the level into chapters, especially now that the level link is apparently working. _________________ Unit: Palm Tungsten T|X |
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crakerz Mega-Poster
Joined: 17 Sep 2003 Posts: 353 Location: California Bay Area
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Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2004 7:29 pm Post subject: |
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Girt wrote: | Obviously the way around limits is to break the level into chapters, especially now that the level link is apparently working. |
That's one way It may not be practical for all levels. One I am working on has a number of logic permutations that quickly drive the number of triggers needed up. If there was a way to directly compare pvars with other pvars, or triggers that had a logic function other than AND (like OR, or XOR), then this wouldn't be necessary.
I like limits. Especially ones that can be pushed until they break. How else will you know what/where they are?
Last edited by crakerz on Mon Feb 23, 2004 8:37 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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crakerz Mega-Poster
Joined: 17 Sep 2003 Posts: 353 Location: California Bay Area
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Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2004 8:36 pm Post subject: Trigger Limits |
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Well, Scott, that's solved it! (At least the non-working triggers part.) I reduced the number of triggers for side 1 from 44 to 39. Now it works. I'll be reloading it tonight. |
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scottlu WI Founder
Joined: 15 Aug 2003 Posts: 1773
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Posted: Tue Feb 24, 2004 12:12 am Post subject: Re: Trigger Limits |
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crakerz wrote: | Well, Scott, that's solved it! (At least the non-working triggers part.) I reduced the number of triggers for side 1 from 44 to 39. Now it works. I'll be reloading it tonight. |
Great to hear! On the issue of Switch count validation, it is being done correctly in v2a (which is available, check original the beta 2 post). Same with Area count validation. _________________ Warfare Incorporated Development Team |
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Girt Established Forum User
Joined: 15 Aug 2003 Posts: 96 Location: Co. Springs
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Posted: Tue Feb 24, 2004 1:27 pm Post subject: All fine on a T3 & Win98 |
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On a positive note, I wanted to affirm the fixes.
The new editor and the new Palm WI both are working great for me, so far (see Hardware below). Including Saving and Loading, etc., on both.
Brought my v.1 level over with no problem.
Registration on Palm worked fine, too.
Also the "crash when exiting 'M'" bug for Win98SE is gone - Thanks!
- Girt _________________ Unit: Palm Tungsten T|X |
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SoLan Very Active User
Joined: 13 Jan 2004 Posts: 183
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Posted: Wed Feb 25, 2004 11:29 am Post subject: |
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crakerz wrote: | That's one way It may not be practical for all levels. One I am working on has a number of logic permutations that quickly drive the number of triggers needed up. If there was a way to directly compare pvars with other pvars, or triggers that had a logic function other than AND (like OR, or XOR), then this wouldn't be necessary.
I like limits. Especially ones that can be pushed until they break. How else will you know what/where they are? |
I think you have been the one who has discovered most of the limits in the level editor/game engine. Thanks to you, the rest of us know what to look out for - even if most of us will probably never push any of the limits you have found.
I noted that you had had to remove some of the triggers from your level. I hope you didn't have to take out anything important? It seems like you have got the trigger stuff pretty much in control, and I trust that you had considered the alternatives before you did that.
I am not a "wiz" when it comes to this stuff, but I have found in my levels that sometimes using a combination of switches and triggers means I can reduce the number of triggers required. In situations where you are testing the same set of conditions over and over, having the test done in one place and setting a switch, means you can simply test for the switch in the other triggers.
Very often you don't have a choice about how you do things in the level editor, but sometimes you do, and I have found that re-thinking the way I do things can sometimes result in better solutions. _________________ --SoLan
Palm Tungsten|T3 |
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crakerz Mega-Poster
Joined: 17 Sep 2003 Posts: 353 Location: California Bay Area
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Posted: Wed Feb 25, 2004 1:41 pm Post subject: |
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Scott, when do you think a release will occur with the trigger limit adjusted?
SoLan, thanks for the compliment about being so pushy . No, I didn't remove anything important. I did three things:
1. Moved some triggers to side 2
2. Combined some triggers. I had four triggers that were for Mission Loaded. One was to set switches, one was to set parameters, one for pvars, and one to start it up. I put them all into one, and used comments to separate. The reason I didn't do it that way to start, was it isn't possible to see the whole trigger on the preview screen at once. In another case, I combined several timed ecoms into one, using the wait action instead of the elapsed time condition.
3. Eliminated a few triggers. One was if all mobile units and some structures were destroyed, and credits was under 99, to end the game. This wasn't consistent with the mission objectives, so I eliminated it.
Great example, btw, of using triggers and switches together. I do that a lot in my levels, also. And I agree on the rethinking part. That's another reason forums like these are so dynamic. To quote scripture: "As iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another (Proverbs 27:13)". We all are unique, and have different ways of looking at things, thank God! All we have to do is accept that others' viewpoints can be valid, and try to see it that way. I learn so much in these types of forums, usually much more than I contribute.
(Ahem) Okay, I'm off the soapbox |
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crakerz Mega-Poster
Joined: 17 Sep 2003 Posts: 353 Location: California Bay Area
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Posted: Wed Feb 25, 2004 10:48 pm Post subject: Unit Group |
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An uhhandled exception occurs if the user tries to select a unit without a group selected. I'm thinking the "new" button should be inactive like the others unless a group is selected.
On a related note: Is it possible to add structures and/or side Neutral to the unit group window? After the "cuaa" bug went away, there isn't any way to create sideNeutral unit groups or unit groups with structures. _________________ Why negotiate when you can just blow things up?
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scottlu WI Founder
Joined: 15 Aug 2003 Posts: 1773
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Posted: Wed Feb 25, 2004 11:49 pm Post subject: |
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I can release an increased trigger count build next week if needed (I wasn't planning on it but can do it). I'm out of town at the moment until Sunday. Thanks for the bug report on the assertion, I'll look into it.
On other other question crakerz on unit groups with neutral units or structures, I'll have to delay that answer till I get back. _________________ Warfare Incorporated Development Team |
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crakerz Mega-Poster
Joined: 17 Sep 2003 Posts: 353 Location: California Bay Area
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Posted: Thu Feb 26, 2004 9:41 am Post subject: |
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Hope the trip is pleasure, not business!
Scott, I would really appreciate it if you could release the increased trigger count next week when you get back. It may only be taken advantage of by a few, but I think it is worth it. I have a level that is dependent upon it that I put many hours into. (pleaseplease please) _________________ Why negotiate when you can just blow things up?
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SoLan Very Active User
Joined: 13 Jan 2004 Posts: 183
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Posted: Thu Feb 26, 2004 11:37 am Post subject: Re: Corrupted levels |
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crakerz wrote: | Several things didn't "trigger" that had triggered before, things I didn't change. After much hair tearing, I realized that the triggers were corrupted somehow. Deleting them (not copying!) and retyping them in as new (exactly as before, btw) was the only solution. |
I was trying out the level I am working on today and I figured out that I needed some more triggers. I added these and tried again, and still nothing happened. I have two computer sides in my level in addition to the human side. I had added two triggers to one of the computer sides and none of these triggered. I also saw that my "every 5 seconds turn side Xs repair on" trigger no longer worked. That had worked on the first test.
Since none of the new stuff was working, I thought at first that I probably hadn't sync-ed the new .pdb to my Palm and I was still playing the old one. Sync-ed again, but the problem was still there.
I couldn't understand this, but since it all seemed to happen to one side, I thought maybe it had something to do with the side the triggers were on. So I opened the triggers and set both of the new ones to the human side. Now it seems to be working perfectly.
This is a brand new level, and all of the triggers were added in version 2, so I guess it doesn't have to do with changing versions. There were no errors when I exported the level. _________________ --SoLan
Palm Tungsten|T3 |
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scottlu WI Founder
Joined: 15 Aug 2003 Posts: 1773
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Posted: Thu Feb 26, 2004 5:40 pm Post subject: |
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crakerz wrote: | Hope the trip is pleasure, not business!
Scott, I would really appreciate it if you could release the increased trigger count next week when you get back. It may only be taken advantage of by a few, but I think it is worth it. I have a level that is dependent upon it that I put many hours into. (pleaseplease please) |
No problem, will do. _________________ Warfare Incorporated Development Team |
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